Chapter 9…oh, Chapter 9, how do I love thee? Let me count the ways. I could give an entire test on this one chapter alone – did you grasp its significance as you were reading? There is a significant speech about war and the nature of defeat – THIS topic comes up again and again in the novel, both in relation to and apart from war. At this point, what do the men feel about the war? Discuss Frederic’s stance on the issue and what his opinions reveal about him as a man.
Also, Frederic is critically injured in this chapter. Compare and contrast this scene and the action that follows it (to end of chapter) with notions of courage, battle, and heroism depicted in the early British literature we’ve read – Beowulf and the characterization of the Knight in The Canterbury Tales. What can we say about Modern heroes? Modern war? (Modern = Modernism, you know, the era spanning from c. 1900-1950’s!)
Chapter 9 is so filled with insight that I had to go back thrice to grasp some of the significant ideas that I had missed. The conversation between the drivers shows so much about the nature of war and its aftermat. Their ideas of the war diverse from each other, but all share one similarity. As Ranildi put it, all men see the war as "rotten", nothing more. They all want that war to be over, immediately. They expressed how nothing can be worst than war itself, and even they acknowledge that they had not experienced the full fledge of the war. Frederick contrast with others in that he belevies the war is not the worst thing there is. Defeat and it aftermat are the worst things that can happen to a nation. Passini, doubtfully questions this, responding that defeat couldnt possibly reach everyone. Frederick stands that with defeat comes the humilation of one nation conquering another, and with that the horrible things an army can do. What Frederick, in my opinion, shows about himself is that perhaps he has a broader, more far-reaching view of events. He is not as myopic as the others who only see the present of the war. Frederick sees the future and how horrid it can be.
ReplyDeleteIn the scene of his injury, there is something to be seen about the modern hero. After injured Frederick seeks for others, constantly crying out where were the other three men and at the same time tending to Passini's injury. The hero here is not boastful like in Beowulf; he may not be strong physically or of noble beings but he is caring. Very much like the Knight in Canterbury Tales, the humble and strong in the midst of adversity, but in contrast he is not of explendorous being. Modern hereos, as i see them, probably are those who despite their humble state show valor and care for other both on and off the action scenes. They are those who seek not their own well being but the well being of other first.
Chapter 9 provides countless hints on the thoughts of these soldiers during the war. The debate over the nature of war and defeat reveals their pessimistic and unenthusiastic views on this war. Lieutenant Frederick Henry has no commitment in this war and feels detached from the it. Despite being an officer, he does not care when the conversation turns into a bitter criticism about the stupid elites who are the causes of this war. Although their attitudes about defeat vary, all the men agree that the war is meaningless and they should “get the war over.” Henry’s view on defeat contrasts sharply with Passini’s, who think “war is not won by victory” and that the horrors of war is worse than defeat. I think Henry’s belief that defeat is worse than the war itself reveals a hidden pride despite his apathetic attitude and an understanding of the terrors of defeat. Out of the few limited outcomes of war, he prefers to be the conqueror than the conquered. He does not want to be forced into submission nor see the security of his family and friends taken.
ReplyDeleteDefinition of heroism has not changed from the early British literature in that it still involves bravery. However, unlike the knights and Beowulf, modern heroes are not required to be physically strong or have superior skills and leadership in battle. I consider Frederick Henry a hero not for his achievements in the battle or for rescuing lives, but for his bravery in the face of danger just to get some macaroni to satisfy the primary necessities of his team. He is more concerned about his men’s hunger than the war. He also shows traits of a modern hero through his selfless attitude. Even after getting hit by a trench shell, his first thoughts were the wellness of others rather than himself. He didn’t even realize the severity of his injuries until his mind was taken off Passini.
Chapter 9 is a very insightful chapter that gives us a view of how the soldiers see the war they are in and how they respond to it. No one likes the war, that is obvious. All the soldiers want the war to be over so they can go home and have peace. But to end the war, one side has to stop fighting. For Lieutenant Fredrick Henry, the concept of giving up the war just to end it seems even worse than losing the war itself. He says that "it would only be worse if we stopped fighting". He gives his view to the other soldiers that just not fighting is not going to end the conflict. Even if the war itself ends, the defeat is still there and it looms over all the soldiers. The enemy would still come after them, plague their lives, take their homes and families. Passini doesn't see it that way and says that in defeat, everyone goes home and defends their own. Henry disagrees and says that they do not know anything about being conquered. This chapter is showing the different views some soldiers have in the war, even the ambulance drivers, yet while majority of the men look at the surface of war, of only the battles that should end, Henry sees the long term consequences of they were to give up to stop war. Even if the war is bad, they have to finish it, they have to conquere the war. If not, they will be the ones conquered. Henry shows that even if he detests this "rotten" war, he will finish it so that he can ensure the security of his friends and family and not suffer the humiliation and consequences of the white flag.
ReplyDeleteThe concept of heroism has changed somewhat over time. Heros like Beowulf and knights see things differently than modern heros do. Heros back in the olden times glorified battles and went into them with vigor and enjoyed combat. But with modern heros, like Henry, he sees nothing exciting about war. With him lying in the ambulance truck and having the blood of the man above him dribbled onto him like a river, what is there to be glorified? With Beowulf and knights, they saw battles as ways to show their courage, to prove their worth. War was good and exciting. Modern heros drew away from that aspect of heroism. War and conflict is not something to praise, nothing to boast about, nothing to say "Yay I love war!" and charge headstrong into battle. Modern heros like Fredrick Henry show their worth by being selfless and caring, not just brave and courageous. After the trench shell hit them, Henry didn't scream for help for his own injuries first, he turned his attentions to others and selflessly attented to them even if he was just as worse for wear. Old heros may focus more on physical strength and successful achievements, but a hero can be someone who isn't as buff as Beowulf or as valiant as a knight. Of course some aspects like being humble, modest, brave, and courageous are still retained, but the definition of heroism has definitely changed over time. I see Henry as a hero because he is a good leader, cares for his fellow men in both battle and out of battle. So what if he isn't Superman? There are other ways to be a hero and Lietanent Fredrick Henry fits the description of a modern hero.
Chapter Nine gives a LOT of insight into the soldiers minds and thoughts on the war. You can tell that the majority of soldiers are not really attached or passionate about fighting. I know this is not in chapter nine but I still feel like this is relevant--in the very first chapter, the narrator talked about the war for awhile but then very passively mentioned the disease that killed thousands. To me, that was a red flag that many more are dying in the war but its like death has lost most of its significance. Back to chapter nine, when the man above Fredrick Henry was bleeding and eventually died, his death went practically unnoticed--in fact the blood was just annoying and gross to the narrator--and the corpse was replaced with another stretcher. But, in reference to the soldiers feelings, it is obvious that they are detatched from the war. One man wanted to get out of fighting so bad that he begged Frederick to take him to the hospital and eventually hit himself on the head to avoid fighting. The narrator himself does not even want to be recognized for his "heroism" by getting the gold medal instead of bronze. But at that point in the novel, I was asking myself, "Is he really a being honored for this?" I mean, he risked his life for stale noodles and cheese. It appeared to me that he was looking for an excuse to get pulled from the game that he doesn't want to play in.
ReplyDeleteFrederick Henry does in fact exhibit traits of a hero. He is humble when it comes time to be honored and revered,faithful to Ms. Barkley, and is courageous whilst fighting--he tried to save all of the other soldiers before himself. Because of these characteristics, I have to say that the narrator resembles the knight in The Canterbury Tales more than the epic hero Beowulf. I do not think that Frederick Henry and Beowulf are comparable in that Beowulf is loud and proud, he takes excessive pride in his fighting,and is extremely honored to fight for another man. Frederick Henry is actually more of a foil to Beowulf because he is reserved, humble, and does not necessarily want to be a part of the war.
some excellent insights in the last few postings! re. the heroism of Frederic, I am interested in Darius's notion that his getting food for the men is an action of bravery in that it is providing them with sustenance. I had previously only considered it in the absurd since, kind of like Brittany - he got critically injured getting macaroni? reminds me of Tim O'Brien's shame at being shot in the rear end in The Things They Carried. Brittany sees Frederic having more in common with knight than Beowulf, which I can see, but I think F.'s most notable difference lies in what he's fighting for - it's not his country (BW) and it's not God (knight) - what is it? yes, yes, I realized F is not "fighting" technically, but he's still putting himself in danger's way when he doesn't HAVE to. Why? Google "code hero" if you want to see what scholars define as the "typical" Hemingway hero... :)
ReplyDeleteI googled "code hero" like Ms. Underwood suggested, and according to what I read, Frederic Henry fights to feel more alive because "If man wishes to live, he lives most intensely sometimes when he is in the direct presence of death." Assuming this is true, defeat must mean giving in to death, because instead of confronting it, he is letting it take its own course unchecked. So that is why, to Frederic Henry whether he hates war or not, it is better for war to go on than to be defeated, better to live in spite of death than live waiting for death. Frederic sees war as a battle between life and death, but the drivers see war as life creating death, and that is the conflict in their views.
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